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The 2019 government shutdown

nodle

Cheesemonger
Administrator
I have a question, couldn't the president just use an executive order to get the wall built? Or could he declare a national emergency and have it pushed through that way? Just wondering.
 

nodle

Cheesemonger
Administrator
Well to answer my own question, yes he has the power to declare a nation emergency for all the drugs and sex trafficking coming into the county. He is the Commander in Chief which allows this. He can actually make the military build it. It would then have a lawsuit come out by the 9th district court of California, which then would be taken to the Supreme Court, where it would be shown in the Constitution that he has the right to do it.
 

nodle

Cheesemonger
Administrator
Well I think tonight you are going to see Trump declare a national emergency in his speech, and this will start the wall, or should I say the lawsuits over it.
 

nodle

Cheesemonger
Administrator
Well it don’t look like either side is budging, and since when does another party come on to discredit a President after a President addresses the Nation? I have never seen that before?
 

jmanz

I bought you the sims
Members
Well it don’t look like either side is budging, and since when does another party come on to discredit a President after a President addresses the Nation? I have never seen that before?
The opposition will usually have a rebuttal during State of the Union addresses but I believe this was unprecedented for an oval office speech.
 

nodle

Cheesemonger
Administrator
I bet the steel companies and the concrete companies are freaking out over this since Trump said he don't care what they use, but to the contractor it will. I mean the concrete will have rebar in it, but if you went steel it would use a lot more.
 

nodle

Cheesemonger
Administrator
You know I am about sick of these workers acting like they are in bad shape. Trump already signed an order stating they will get back paid. Banks are giving out 0% interest loans until it get's resolved. You are literally on paid vacation. I see people online looking for donations etc. to "make it". Maybe I am wrong or am I missing something?
 

ndboarder

Bill Gates' Gimp
Members
You know I am about sick of these workers acting like they are in bad shape. Trump already signed an order stating they will get back paid. Banks are giving out 0% interest loans until it get's resolved. You are literally on paid vacation. I see people online looking for donations etc. to "make it". Maybe I am wrong or am I missing something?
You are wrong. The majority of people live pay check to pay check, so getting by without being paid will be rough for many. Banks might give out loans to some, but it won't cover everyone, and getting that money isn't free. Even if you do get that money, when you do start getting paid again, now you have a debt you have to pay off while continuing to pay existing bills. The government can't find the money to re-open, where are they going to find money to pay people for their forced time off without pay.

I'm sick of a dumb ass throwing a tantrum and holding the country hostage over a wall that won't work in the first place.....
 

nodle

Cheesemonger
Administrator
How is a 0% interest loan a debt? I mean ya it's your responsibility to pay it back, so you can't be un-wise and blow it. It is there to help cover living expenses, not to go buy new stuff with. I would consider this more like a paycheck advancement. Is it right? No. Should the government be shutdown? No. No one wants that. But it could be worse They could just lay off all the unnecessary people. In my line of work I deal with a lot of government agencies, FW&P, Forest Service etc. There are a lot of positions that are unneeded. I swear they just create jobs for these people. That is getting off topic. A prime example though of some people complaining, is there was a post on Reedit here about a week ago saying how his family is struggling because he is a government employee not working right now. He had posted a picture of his wife and child sitting on a couch. He was asking for donations to help him make it. That is until people started to inspect the picture he posted of the couch the wife and kid were sitting on, which was an imported Italian white leather couch that someone pulled the same image offline, they were sitting on a $20,000 couch, then they started pulling other things out of the photos as well. If you can afford a $20,000 couch then you aren't hurting. There are real people out there hurting in worse positions than that. At least you are guaranteed by the order Trump signed. Guys over here I see get laid off every year during winter in the construction business. You aren't guaranteed to get you you job back come Spring either. That is tough living. Anyways we will all have our own views and opinions on the situation at hand, I think we can all agree it sucks and shouldn't be.
 

ndboarder

Bill Gates' Gimp
Members
A 0% loan is still a debt you have to repay. You still have to pay your bills today. You are not getting paid today.

So you have $1000 in bills today. You manage to get a $1000 loan for 0% and pay those bills exactly as it's intend. Maybe you got that in time to pay bills before late fees or pissing off a landlord, maybe not. Maybe banks won't give this to others, but you got it. Next month, when you get to go to work again you now owe $1000 in monthly bills plus you owe the $1000 to the bank. You now have a debt you didn't have before.

This is NOT a paid vacation,
 

nodle

Cheesemonger
Administrator
I don't know where your coming up with an extra $1,000 a month? That debt would still exist on track no matter if there was a shutdown or not. So say right before the shutdown that you have paid your monthly $1,000 a month bills and you are caught up. So the government shutdown has occurred. You now own the $1,000 for this month. So you go down to the bank and prove you are a government employee. They are guaranteed their money so you have $0 problem getting your loan (normally you have to somehow guarantee payback on a loan by proving you can afford to pay it back, not in this case because Trump signed it in). So they gladly loan you your $1,000 due for bills this month, you take that money and pay your bills. Next month comes and you are still out of work no problem you can and borrow the $1,000 again and pay your bills. Third month rolls around and you are back to work. The government sends you a check for $2,000 for the amount you earned while you were not working. You go down to the back and pay the $2,000 that you owe, everyone is squared up and even. Yet you just had two months off from work, but still earned your paycheck. I guess yes you are out of your time going down to the bank and fuel, but you just got two free months off. I would gladly eat it for that. Am I missing something?
 

ndboarder

Bill Gates' Gimp
Members
Sure, if everything works out exactly as you say, then no harm.

Your talking of an ideal scenario where everything works out exactly as politicians promise and the people have not already had to turn to high rate credit cards, pay day loans, or such in the past month of government shutdown before this. Your scenario only works out IF they person got a 0% loan and not everyone will.

Then there's the people's stupidity part where some will undoubtly try to abuse this and take a larger loan than they would normally make, or they'll blow more than they normally would getting a large lump sum rather than normal size pay checks.
 

nodle

Cheesemonger
Administrator
Your scenario only works out IF they person got a 0% loan and not everyone will.
I know most of all our banks around here are offering it. The ads play on the radio constantly. Including both major banks and small credit unions

Source

Then there's the people's stupidity part where some will undoubtly try to abuse this and take a larger loan than they would normally make, or they'll blow more than they normally would getting a large lump sum rather than normal size pay checks.
This has nothing to do with shutdown, it's not Trumps fault if you can't manage your current bills or funds. He did his part already. The rest is up the the person.

Like I said it sucks, I think we both can agree on it. We could talk about the wall as well, which is the cause for all of this. Everyone is going to have a different opinion on that as well. At the time of writing I don't see either side budging. I they are going to let it go on a little longer then Trump in the end will just declare it a national emergency.
 

ndboarder

Bill Gates' Gimp
Members
You still ignored the fact that until now, people did not have these options the entire time. Banks are going to do more than just check your employment status though, because nothing will force people to use their back pay to repay the loan and the bank has to protect itself. Assuming everyone that tries to get a 0% loan can get it is a huge stretch.

Agreed that people being dumb is not related to the shutdown, hence I pointed out that it was the people's stupidity. Then again, this shutdown is mostly the result of people's stupidity....
 

jmanz

I bought you the sims
Members
Ah yes, shutdowns. We've gone through a few of these now. This one is not impacting us personally, but the others in recent history have. I can tell you that some people do view them as vacations but others who live paycheck to paycheck are struggling. Just depends on how you run your affairs, how old you are, etc.....

One couple that we know personally are both government employees. Both not receiving a paycheck. That would suck. They also don't have very good spending habits (credit card debt) which complicates things.

For government employees, these are the types of things that happen. Shutdowns are not uncommon anymore. The honest truth is you are just a pawn in the big scheme of things. You best have your finances in order and be prepared.
 

ryanator

Mathematical
Members
I can see all points in this thread, but I do have to say to the gov workers, "how does it feel now?".

The problem, yes, is the lower level employees getting shafted and it will also in circle affect citizens, but maybe they can start to understand more of the millions of people hurting because of dear old Uncle Sam's antics. The government plays with "regular" citizens lives everyday with their bureaucracy and mismanagement, with their employees "just following orders" to make this happen, which in their eyes makes them just as responsible. Look up any law, made up by them too,, following orders isn't an excuse.

I do not wish anything bad for an individual, and wish there would be a perfect solution, but also even government employees need to know what they get into and the risks when applying for employment. Everyone should be prepared for anything, so I don't feel sorry for them. Citizens get told the same. Try calling any government agency and complaining about something not being fair, and you will get a response, sorry, that's the law or the way it is.

I guess the sad thing is this isn't going to come out better in the end for both parties, just political ploys to get what each side wants. The big wigs live more comfortably, so they won't lose in the end, except their ego.
 
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jmanz

I bought you the sims
Members
Shutdown will be ending for at least three weeks while they work on a deal. Sounds like the workers will be getting their back pay asap.
 

nodle

Cheesemonger
Administrator
Bad move if you ask me, makes Trump look week. Seems everyone online is like "Pelosi sure showed him and made him cave". Not impressed. Word on the street is he will still push for a national emergency. CNN apparently already has the transcripts for it.
 

jmanz

I bought you the sims
Members
Bad move if you ask me, makes Trump look week. Seems everyone online is like "Pelosi sure showed him and made him cave". Not impressed. Word on the street is he will still push for a national emergency. CNN apparently already has the transcripts for it.
Well he said in his speech today that if they don't get a deal done, he'll use the power available to him to declare an emergency. So we will see.
 

ryanator

Mathematical
Members
Hopefully my last comment didn't come off too insensitive about not feeling bad overall for the government workers. I did want to add though, you have to feel bad when people's lives are being messed with due to politics, but again, it goes both ways, regular citizens and their own workers (who are citizens as well).

I do think that Trump put too much effort on the wall thing and made it his thing and now the biggest part of his ego, just like Obama had the Unaffordable health care act. There could have been many more things to put effort in, like reforming, but due to the devil of politics, that's next to impossible.
 
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