Let's discuss open networks

[nodle]

Ok, just today we had someone out in front of our store sitting in his vehicle using our wireless. This is not to big of a deal, and anyone can walk in and use our wireless. The same with coffee shops etc. So I started thinking of the legality to this. Say someone sat outside and did something illegal using our internet. Who would be held liable for this. Because the guy is just gonna drive off. I asked a co-worker and he said it's never been taking to court. Not only could you blame stuff on a open access point, but then what about trojans,virsus, spam etc.? I have often wondered what would be the outcome in a case like this?

 

[jmanz]

actually I do believe someone went to court over this in Florida but I can't remember the outcome. Might have to do some more digging.

 

[nodle]

actually I do believe someone went to court over this in Florida but I can't remember the outcome. Might have to do some more digging.

Hmmm i would be interested in the article if you can dig it up.

 

[jmanz]

I wonder if davec remembers what i'm talking about. I'll ask him if he ever shows up to work one of these days

 

[ndboarder]

I wonder if davec remembers what i'm talking about. I'll ask him if he ever shows up to work one of these days

I seem to recall daver speaking about something like this as well. Don't remember though if it was the owner of the network' date=' or the person who used it who was arrested.I did some digging and came across THIS article. In this case the man who used the open network was arrested, soley for using someone's open network without permission. I also saw a similar story from the UK.

 

[jmanz]

I wonder if davec remembers what i'm talking about. I'll ask him if he ever shows up to work one of these days

I seem to recall daver speaking about something like this as well. Don't remember though if it was the owner of the network' date=' or the person who used it who was arrested.I did some digging and came across THIS article. In this case the man who used the open network was arrested, soley for using someone's open network without permission. I also saw a similar story from the UK.

it was the person who was using it without permission that was on trial.

 

[nodle]

Thanks for the link ndboarder, some of those guys have some interesting replies.

 

[ndboarder]

After your post admin I went back and looked at the comments. What's everyone's take on using an open network without permission?

Personally, having worked at a helpdesk, I know most people don't even realize their wireless isn't secured and others can use it. Well at least most people that call a helpdesk.

At anyrate, I saw some saying that since it is open and broadcast that property rules don't apply. I say that is bunk, granted the internet is public, but someones connection that they are paying for isn't. I wouldn't give everyone free access to something that I'm paying $$ for, unless they were a friend.

At one time I had some nice AP's that used a highly modded linux version as their IOS and had a login screen. I had thought about putting up a few in my apartment building and reselling my connection, however even then if one person paid, they could tell everyone else the username and password required, and my ISP likely wouldn't have like that either so...

 

[Davidc]

Cory Doctorow, outreach coordinator for the Electronic Frontier Foundation, had this to say in 2003:

"As long as there is no notice stipulating that access is restricted, and as long as the individual is not trying to crack an encryption code or taking other extraordinary measures to connect, it should be legal."

 

[Davidc]

The florida case:

http://www.networkworld.com/news/2005/070705-wifi-arrest.html

 

[Davidc]

Will this land you in jail?

The legality of stealing your neighbor's connection is murky at best.

http://money.cnn.com/2005/08/08/technology/personaltech/internet_piracy/index.htm?cnn=yes

 

[nodle]

Ya I think its gonna take a big case to make it stand out. But we all know the average "joe" just plugs his router in and off he goes. So if they finally make this a law throughout the country then companies like Linksys, Netgear etc. are gonna have to make the wep or wpa etc. on by default.

 

[ndboarder]

Ya I think its gonna take a big case to make it stand out. But we all know the average "joe" just plugs his router in and off he goes. So if they finally make this a law throughout the country then companies like Linksys' date=' Netgear etc. are gonna have to make the wep or wpa etc. on by default.[/quote']and then those average joes will buy one and be unable to get their wireless working.

 

[nodle]

Ya I think its gonna take a big case to make it stand out. But we all know the average "joe" just plugs his router in and off he goes. So if they finally make this a law throughout the country then companies like Linksys' date=' Netgear etc. are gonna have to make the wep or wpa etc. on by default.[/quote']and then those average joes will buy one and be unable to get their wireless working.

Exactly!

 

[Davidc]

Sounds like a support nightmare for someone? :smt013

 

[nodle]

Sounds like a support nightmare for someone? :smt013

I don't know I don't think it would be to hard to setup a default WEP key for a router. The companies could setup a first time wizard that would start off once they accessed it. It would say something like "Please enter your key to be able to logon to your network" I think companies could make it work alot easier. But then again we all know just running on basic WEP doesn't mean your safe. Those can be cracked fairly easy anyways. but at least then it could be a crime for breaking the WEP key and not just accidently connecting to a open network.

 

[wavetach]

After your post admin I went back and looked at the comments. What's everyone's take on using an open network without permission?Personally' date=' having worked at a helpdesk, I know most people don't even realize their wireless isn't secured and others can use it. Well at least most people that call a helpdesk.At anyrate, I saw some saying that since it is open and broadcast that property rules don't apply. I say that is bunk, granted the internet is public, but someones connection that they are paying for isn't. I wouldn't give everyone free access to something that I'm paying $$ for, unless they were a friend.

At one time I had some nice AP's that used a highly modded linux version as their IOS and had a login screen. I had thought about putting up a few in my apartment building and reselling my connection, however even then if one person paid, they could tell everyone else the username and password required, and my ISP likely wouldn't have like that either so...[/quote']

That is when you make them buy a bridge and enable encryption on it and you have to setup the bridge and then give it back to them with an password unknown to them.

 

[Davidc]

After your post admin I went back and looked at the comments. What's everyone's take on using an open network without permission?Personally' date=' having worked at a helpdesk, I know most people don't even realize their wireless isn't secured and others can use it. Well at least most people that call a helpdesk.At anyrate, I saw some saying that since it is open and broadcast that property rules don't apply. I say that is bunk, granted the internet is public, but someones connection that they are paying for isn't. I wouldn't give everyone free access to something that I'm paying $$ for, unless they were a friend.

At one time I had some nice AP's that used a highly modded linux version as their IOS and had a login screen. I had thought about putting up a few in my apartment building and reselling my connection, however even then if one person paid, they could tell everyone else the username and password required, and my ISP likely wouldn't have like that either so...[/quote']

That is when you make them buy a bridge and enable encryption on it and you have to setup the bridge and then give it back to them with an password unknown to them.

If they "reset" the router, then the config gets wiped along with the connection.

 

[wavetach]

After your post admin I went back and looked at the comments. What's everyone's take on using an open network without permission?Personally' date=' having worked at a helpdesk, I know most people don't even realize their wireless isn't secured and others can use it. Well at least most people that call a helpdesk.At anyrate, I saw some saying that since it is open and broadcast that property rules don't apply. I say that is bunk, granted the internet is public, but someones connection that they are paying for isn't. I wouldn't give everyone free access to something that I'm paying $$ for, unless they were a friend.

At one time I had some nice AP's that used a highly modded linux version as their IOS and had a login screen. I had thought about putting up a few in my apartment building and reselling my connection, however even then if one person paid, they could tell everyone else the username and password required, and my ISP likely wouldn't have like that either so...[/quote']

That is when you make them buy a bridge and enable encryption on it and you have to setup the bridge and then give it back to them with an password unknown to them.

If they "reset" the router, then the config gets wiped along with the connection.

Some industrial tape you can't get off put over the reset button should do the trick. Most people are to stupid to realize there is a reset button if it gets covered up.