Thoughts on the North Dakota pipeline

Hmmm interesting theory @O-Tron. I could see it. Maybe your right and the upper Tribes Men then tried to rile up their people and say it was for water to "get back" at DAPL. But what are they hopping to get out of it now? I mean the damage is already done. Unless it's more of a "revenge".
 
It's always about the money, for both sides.  The cat and mouse game is played until one side balks, then the push and shove ensues.  Now you are seeing feelings hurt, pride, revenge, resentment, and many other things accumulating.  What you're seeing here is nothing history hasn't seen a million times over, it's just here and now which why we care about it.  Life will go on, it's just unfortunate that innocent people on each side can will get hurt.
 
Another interesting side note: The Tribal Chairman owns the convenience store that the protesters are buying the majority of the camp's supplies at. He wants this to go on forever.  
 
Get the water cannons! Some probably need a good shower anyways. Any time Jessie Jackson is involved, it's bad news.
 
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You know what's especially ridiculous about this? They are utilizing Native Americans to make a pretty legitimate point. Yes, you can't eat money, but head out to a reservation and see how they take care of "nature" and tell me they are the "stewards of the land" everyone gives them credit for being. We're they wronged by whites in the past? Absolutely, but it's become a self-fulfilling prophecy now. This sign is the height of hypocrisy. The plank from your eye before the silver from another's and all that jazz.  

 
Something to post to their Instagram. Protesting is so hot right now.

I bet it starts to heat up though after this.

Dakota Pipeline Protesters Vow to Stay Despite Army Corps' Order

They should had nipped it in the bud, because no you have given a window for more and more people to get up there (but I bet it weeds people out with the snow they got today).

 
I can go around strutting like a rooster with my "opinion" as everyone else too, but it's all an opinion and politics.  If trying to  show proof and citations doesn't work anymore, then I'll just have to stick with an opinion.There are so many hidden spills that are not reported because any industry doesn't want a bad rep, and their only choice when it's found out or know they don't have a choice is to throw money at it. Their cleanup is mostly just to appease what we see on the face of it.  In North Dakota alone, there were many unreported spills (won't bother posting the articles on it) because the truth is most companies were careless when building these and our freeze/thaw cycles here are not nice on the infrastructure.  BP's big gulf oil spill is still lingering and has drastically shifted the ecosystem in that area, it's just not "mainstream news" because it's old news.  Also, most spills that are reported, are as much under reported as possible, I know first hand.
Anyways, if you look at the very second post of this topic which was my reply, I simply showed a map of the many pipelines and said "what's one more"? This is going to go in someone's backyard, so they will fight it.  If it was in your area, you would probably do the same.  Also, many people have nothing better to do than to protest, so even out of area people come out to join and cause destruction.  I'm not crazy about the building of these pipelines, though see the benefit, but there's always the pros and cons of everything.
OK, I guess I'll strut like a rooster a little more with my "opinion", but this time I'll do it with "facts" from Wikipedia. I've edited this the list below to include only train accidents in the United States. It's quite a bit longer if you include the worldwide statistics. Looking at these numbers I'd rather have the oil in a pipeline than on a train. Plus, most of the time these derailments are chalked up to dilapidated tracks or ones that haven't been maintained correctly or overused. Good way to solve that problem? Don't use them so much to transport oil. Plus, people actually die when these tracks and trains fail. 2015[edit]





nt-Carbon-West-Va-2015-train-derailment-response-1.jpg

Mount Carbon

  • 16 February – United States – 2015 Mount Carbon train derailment - A CSX freight train derails in West Virginia. A broken rail caused nineteen Bakken crude oil tank cars to catch fire, with over 1,100 people evacuated from their homes nearby.[315]
     
     
     
  • 24 February – United States – 2015 Oxnard train derailment - A Metrolink train hits a road vehicle at Oxnard, California and derails.[318] The train engineer dies and 29 others are injured.
     
     
     
  • 25 February – United States – A CN freight train traveling from Winnipeg, Manitoba to Superior, Wisconsin derails 25 miles northwest of Duluth, Minnesota. Thirteen of the 107 cars in the train derail, some of which contain naphthalene. No injuries or spills were reported.[319][320]
     
     
     
  • 2 March – United States – A Union Pacific train hauling hazardous material derails near Meacham, Oregon; 10 cars jump the tracks in a narrow canyon overlooking Meacham Creek.[321]
     
     
     
  • 5 March – United States – A BNSF oil train derails in a rural area near Galena, Illinois. Twenty-one of the 105 cars, containing Bakken formation crude oil, leave the track and catch fire, which continues to burn. No injuries are reported.[322]
     
     
     
  • 9 March – United States – 2015 Halifax train crash - An Amtrak passenger train collides with a tractor trailer in Halifax, North Carolina. No life-threatening injuries were reported. The accident was caught on video.[326]
     
     
     
  • 15 March – United States – A car ignores warning signals at an open grade crossing in Louisville, Kentucky. A Union Pacific freight train crashes into the car with 4 Bhutanese passengers in it where they were returning from soccer practice. 2 passengers sitting on the right side were killed in the crash while 2 were critically injured and taken to a nearby hospital. The accident was also caught on camera by two railfans.[330][331]
     
     
     
  • 28 March – United States – 2015 Los Angeles train crash - An Expo Line train collides with an automobile at an intersection, injuring 12.[335]
     
     
     
  • 27 April – United States – Several well cars of a Union Pacific train derail off a bridge near Bridge City, Louisiana during a severe storm. The event is caught on tape from a car's dashcam.[339]
     
     
     
  • 6 May – United States – A train derails near Heimdal, North Dakota, which ignites a crude oil fire in six tanker cars and forces the evacuation of approximately 40 nearby residents. No injuries or fatalities were reported.[342]
     
     
     




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Philadelphia.

  • 12 May – United States – 2015 Philadelphia train derailment - Amtrak passenger train Northeast Regional Train 188, en route from Washington, D.C. to New York City and carrying an estimated 238 passengers and five crew, derails and partially rolls over on its side in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, in the Port Richmond neighborhood. Out of the 243 passengers and crew on the train more than 200 are injured in the derailment,[343] with a confirmation of 8 deaths. With the current death toll of 8, as of Thursday, May 14, 2015, this is the U.S.'s deadliest train incident in almost six years.[344][345] The accident occurred at almost the same spot as another fatal accident.[346]
     
     
     
  • 13 May – United States – A CSX freight train collides with a bus in East Point, Georgia that was trapped on a railroad crossing by traffic while stopped at a traffic light. Six people were injured in the wreck. The accident was caught on tape by cameras inside the bus.[347][348]
     
     
     
  • 11 June – United States – Nine cars (and a locomotive) of an 84-car Kansas City Southern freight train derail in Houston, Texas. Two cars fall from the track, with one falling onto a road below. No injuries were reported and no cargo was spilled.[352]
     
     
     
  • 2 July – United States – 2015 Tennessee train derailment - A train carrying hazardous materials goes off of its tracks near Knoxville, Tennessee.[356]
     
     
     
  • 5 October – United States – An Amtrak passenger train strikes rocks on the line and derails near Northfield, Vermont.[368][369]
     
     
     
  • 24 October – United States – A southbound Union Pacific freight train hauling 64 cars of gravel and concrete materials is swept off the tracks by flood waters just north of Corsicana, Texas, after Hurricane Patricia's weak remnants dumped 18 inches of rain on the area over a two-day period. Both crew members were rescued from the flood waters uninjured.[370]
     
     
     






  • 14 November – United States – A freight train collides with a Toyota Camry in North Carolina, killing the two elderly passengers of the vehicle.[374]
     
     
     




2016[edit]

  • 4 January – United States – A Tri-Rail passenger train collides with a garbage truck which had broken down on a grade crossing at Lake Worth stationFlorida and is derailed. Twenty-two people are injured.[378]
     
     
     
  • 28 January – United States – A northbound Tri-Rail train derails in Pompano Beach, Florida. One person is injured.[382]
     
     
     
  • 7 March – United States – An Altamont Corridor Express train derails after striking a fallen tree in Niles Canyon near Sunol, California. The lead car falls into Alameda Creek. Fourteen people are injured, four seriously.[390]
     
     
     
  • 14 March – United States – Cimarron train derailmentAmtrak's Southwest Chief derails about 20 miles (32 km) west of Dodge City in Kansas; five cars are derailed. Thirty-two people are injured.[391]
     
     
     
  • 25 March – United States – Callaway train crash; A collision between a train and a tractor-trailer transporting propane causes a large explosion and injures two train crew members.
     
     
     
  • 3 April – United States – 2016 Chester, Pennsylvania, train derailment: Two people die and thirty-one suffer injuries when an Amtrak train collides with a backhoe on the tracks and a car derails in Chester, near Philadelphia.[393]
     
     
     
  • 1 May – United States – A freight train derails in northeast Washington D.C., spilling hazardous chemicals. Nobody is injured, but metropolitan and Amtrak service to and from Washington is disrupted.[403]
     
     
     
  • 3 June – United States – A crude oil train derails due to defective track and catches fire at Mosier, Oregon. The town was evacuated.[409]
     
     
     
  • 26 June – United States – An Amtrak passenger train collides with a van on a grade crossing in southern Colorado. Five of the six persons in the van die.[411]
     
     
     
  • 28 June – United States – Two BNSF Railway freight trains collide head-on near Panhandle, Texas. Two crewmen were killed, one was injured and one other remains missing. The wrecked locomotives caught fire following initial impact.[412]
     
     
     
  • 14 July - United States - Early in the morning, Norfolk Southern train 164 strikes a tractor-trailer in Chattanooga, Tennessee, resulting in the train derailing and the lead locomotive overturning.[416]
     
     
     
  • 29 September – United States – 2016 Hoboken train crash; A NJ Transit train entering Hoboken Terminal overruns the end-of-track bumper block and smashes into a wall, causing structural damage to the terminal building. A woman on the platform is killed by falling debris, and more than 100 others are injured.[430]
     
     
     
  • 8 October – United States – A Long Island Railroad train derails near New Hyde Park. Thirty-three people are injured—26 passengers and 7 employees, four seriously, when an LIRR commuter train struck a work train that was partially fouling the track near a switch.[431][432]
     
     
     



Now let's take a look at how safe the roads are:

In 2015 North Dakota had...

111 fatal crashes  

131 persons killed in traffic crashes

4,932 persons injured in traffic crashes

15,077 traffic crashes  

In 2012 North Dakota had...

147 fatal crashes

170 person killed in traffic crashes

5,319 persons injured in traffic crashes

18,356 total number of traffic crashes

In 2010 North Dakota had...

92 fatal crashes

105 persons killed in traffic crashes

4,682 persons injured in traffic crashes

17,076 total number of traffic crashes

I think it would be fair to state that the 2012-2013 time-frame was one of the heights, if not the height of traffic on North Dakota railways due to the oil industry. But, even with the slowdown we've seen the last few years the numbers are still higher by most indicators than back in 2010. I think a correlation can be drawn between oil traffic and the increase. 

One way to limit the risk for drivers on the road? Get the oil truck off the road. Get the oil in a pipeline. If you want to get into a dick measuring contest over who's list is bigger than the other's I'm willing to do that, but it isn't productive. Pipelines are the safest way to transport oil. Period. Do they leak from time to time, yeah, they do, but I'd rather do it this way than another. It's like people who don't fly because the plane might crash, even though statistically it's the safest way to travel. 

 
Something to post to their Instagram. Protesting is so hot right now.I bet it starts to heat up though after this.
Dakota Pipeline Protesters Vow to Stay Despite Army Corps' Order

They should had nipped it in the bud, because no you have given a window for more and more people to get up there (but I bet it weeds people out with the snow they got today).
The Army Corp is the biggest instigator in all of this. They have sucked in terms of setting the timeline and holding to it. 

 
Spoke with a friend of mine who is in PA school. This story has done the rounds in the medical community and their pretty sure that this injury wasn't caused by an explosion, more likely a tow rope or a chain wrapping around her arm. Which would be consistent with stories that prior to the "explosion" occurring the "protectors" were attempting to move some of the burned out construction equipment. Of note as well is that there was a story from 2014 that circulated among his classmates that outlined what kind of damage a concussion grenade could do to someone. Cited a police raid where one of these grenades was thrown into a toddler's crib, toddler was burned, but not mangled like this woman. 

If there was an explosion I don't think it's directly attributable to law enforcement, I think it's more likely that it was a result of the propane tanks or Molotov cocktails the "protectors" have been reportedly been using. 

I'm tired of all this crap. Having been in Bismarck this last weekend and dealing with this garbage I'm actually angry with people who can defend these clowns. Come and look at these people up close and tell me that they are the victims here. 

 
Yes, there are many issues concerning both sides whether by pipeline or land transport, but pipelines will reach the water table far more faster with longer lasting effects compared to land transport.  I'm not an "environmentalist", but I think no one wants oil seeping in their water system.  Land transport accidents result in spillage as well, even more on record, and worse, more direct deaths of people.  Pick your poison. 

 I'm not totally against pipelines, and am not necessarily supporting land transport over this.  It's good that we are having a discussion among the group.

 
Yep, it's always about the money.  When they say it's not about the money...it's about the money.
 
I've been seeing on Facebook/News that there are buses getting filled up with people coming up to help support Standing Rock from all over the country now.
 
Sounds like there is about a 1,000 more vets coming that the original 2,000.

Two-thousand veterans have signed up and the Oceti Sakowin protesters' campsite cannot hold more veterans than that, but about 1,000 more have said they plan to come, Parker said. The veterans plan to set up on Dec. 4 and will stay at least through Dec. 7, she said. She later added that some would remain indefinitely at Standing Rock."The militarized police paid for by tax dollars ... is unconstitutional," Parker said.

"People are being brutalized; concussion grenades are being thrown into crowds," Parker said. "They're spraying people, even old women, and other elders of the tribe with tear gas and pepper spray and all of this is just unconstitutional. I can't believe the media hasn't taken more of an interest in this."
Source

 
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