Detroit, what a scary town

[Davidc]

Pretty wild that none of the products are out on display. Looks like everything is behind bullet proof glass?

 

[nodle]

Check out the Subway in Chicago. Getting your sandwich behind bullet proof glass.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJJLKjeLItU

 

[Davidc]

I don't think we have any sandwich shops or gas stations that look like that here in this state. 

 

[ryanator]

Not bulletproof for this stuff: 10mm Auto 140 Grain Xtreme Penetrator, even

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDvzul3rvTk 9mm, 40, or 45 in this can't penetrate the full stuff though.

 

[nodle]

Oh I like those, gonna check those out thanks @ryanator.

 

[ryanator]

Oh I like those, gonna check those out thanks @ryanator.

Underwood makes the best ammo out there (I have some), and they sell Xtreme Defender rounds too for most calibers which penetrate optimally and create a permanent wound channel by hydraulic energy (they have slightly different fins than the penetrators.  Look up videos on youtube showing how these penetrate different common materials and still penetrate the target the same almost no matter what.

 

[Davidc]

Not bulletproof for this stuff: 10mm Auto 140 Grain Xtreme Penetrator, even

Probably would be rough on the bullet proof vests?

 

[ryanator]

Probably would be rough on the bullet proof vests?

The common calibers like 9mm, 40, and 45 do pretty well in common and thinner soft armor like IIA.  The 10mm and 357 sig will start to give you more penetration along with magnum calibers.

 

[nodle]

Reminds me of the Black Talons back in the day.

 

[Davidc]

Looks like they make Xtreme Penetrator for 44 magnum too. 40.50 for a box of 20. Ouch! 

I wonder if they consider those to be +P loads? 

 

[ryanator]

Reminds me of the Black Talons back in the day.

Those were hollow points.  The thing with HPs is that they depend on certain variables to perform (bullet velocity and weight, material, etc..).  When those variables are in their favor they perform quite well , but when they aren't, and can happen far to often in real world situations (unlike perfectly set up ballistic gel), they don't open up, under penetrate, and/or deflect away from the point of aim.

Looks like they make Xtreme Penetrator for 44 magnum too. 40.50 for a box of 20. Ouch! I wonder if they consider those to be +P loads? 

Kind of confusing, but +p can technically be used to define any bullet loaded to higher pressures on the high end of the SAAMI spec chart of pressures (not to go dangerously over thus blowing the barrel up).  The term +p is referred to in the calibers; 9mm, 45 acp, 38 sp, 38 auto, and 257 Roberts (had to look that one up).  Magnum loads were technically in the day a cartridge extended from a previous cartridge to offer a hotter, thus magnum load, but producing it's own caliber and need for a different chambered gun.

 

[nodle]

Their .32 ammo has an interesting tip.

 

[ryanator]

I have a box of those that Underwood makes in the +P loading, they call them Xtreme Cavitator.  The  32 acp  round is usually shot from a short 3" or less barrel and doesn't have a lot of energy, so these have been well tested to give you optimal penetration and a decent wound channel for it's caliber.

Sorry to derail the original thread, with the bullet proof glass mentioned, thought it would be interesting to bring up some modern bullet loadings that could bypass them.  

 

[Davidc]

1.6" thick ALON armor is capable of stopping .50 BMG armor-piercing rounds, which can penetrate 3.7" of traditional glass laminate.

I don't think I'd volunteer to wear the ALON armor vest and be shot. 

 

[nodle]

Sorry to derail the original thread, with the bullet proof glass mentioned, thought it would be interesting to bring up some modern bullet loadings that could bypass them.  

Ya I thought about splitting it off, but since it pertains I am going to let it go. It's an interesting discussion.

 

[nodle]

I have been running Hornady .32 FTX Critical Defense in one of my carries. But am thinking about switching to something new, since I have seen these. (again I am probably fine, the Hornady would probably still sting a little )

 

[Davidc]

I have been running Hornady .32 FTX Critical Defense in one of my carries. But am thinking about switching to something new, since I have seen these. (again I am probably fine, the Hornady would probably still sting a little )

Have you looked at Hornady's XTP line? I wonder how they compare. I  have used XTP in one of my lever guns but, the devils jam. 

 

[Davidc]

Illinois Comptroller Susana Mendoza was ordered to make a “substantial” dent in a $2 billion backlog of bills owed to Medicaid providers. The courts ruled that according to the State Constitution, it cannot reduce the pension payments to state employees. What is happening in Illinois is indicative of how governments are imploding. Since State and local governments cannot “print” (create) money, they are forced to borrow and raise taxes. Consequently, they have hit the ceiling in tax resistance. What is happening is people are gradually migrating because there is absolutely no hope for states like Illinois. The only way out will have to be bankruptcy and a default on all the pension promises.

Caught in the middle are the average middle class American who is being exploited from both sides.

 

[Davidc]

The state of Illinois has not passed a budget for close to three years.Arguably it’s just as well because Illinois budgets for decades have been nothing but a moth-eaten collection of lies, one time deficits repeated endlessly, and financial wizardry statements designed to disguise Illinois’ real problems: failure to rein in spending coupled with a very business unfriendly environment.

As Illinois’ bond rating careens towards junk, Illinois Unpaid Bills Jumped to $14.3 Billion. Today, the state told contractors to halt roadwork other than that required for safety.

Unable To Pay Bills, Illinois Sends "Dear Contractor" Letter Telling Firms To Halt Road Work On July 1